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In a previous blog post, we discussed our unfortunate and frustrating experience with the brake failure on our 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid ("FEH"). More specifically, the failure of the regenerative braking system due to a defective master cylinder and hydraulic control unit ("HCU"). Since posting that information, we have heard from many other Ford Escape and Mercury Mariner Hybrid owners who have experienced the same problem. Most all of them described the harrowing experience of having the electro-hydraulic brakes resort to failsafe mode; some resulting in accidents or near-misses.
I am happy to report that after replacing the defective master cylinder and HCU at a cost of more than $7,000, the regenerative brakes on my FEH have worked without incident for more than six months. No more warning lamps, alarms, or death-defying stops using the hand-controlled emergency parking brake.
As fully described in my related post, Ford was unresponsive to this matter. In fact, the service managers at three different dealerships either refused to acknowledge this was an issue with the FEH, or failed to bring the problem to my attention, even though Ford had recognized that this was a problem only a few months after I purchased the vehicle. We had previously encouraged anyone else having this problem to file a complaint with the Office of Defects Investigation ("ODI") at the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration ("NHTSA"). If you have not already done so, you can file a safety complaint at this web site... http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ or by calling the NHTSA Safety Hotline, Monday through Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 8:00 p.m. at (888) 327-4236, TTY: (800) 424-9153.
A number of complaints have already been filed. I have reproduced some of those below to help give you an idea of how similar the problems are amongst those who have experienced this brake failure.
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:ANTILOCK:ABS WARNING LIGHT
Details: COMPLETE BRAKE FAILURE. FIRST TIME IT OCCURRED WAS ON THE INTERSTATE - 65 MILES AN HOUR AND THE BRAKE LIGHT AND THE ABS LIGHT CAME ON AND THERE WAS A BEEP. THERE WERE THEN NO BRAKES AT ALL. LUCKILY, I WAS ABLE TO GET TO THE SIDE OF THE ROAD AND COAST TO A STOP. TURNED OFF THE TRUCK AND STARTED IT AGAIN AND IT HAD BRAKES. ON THIS LAST INCIDENT, THE SAME THING IN THE SAME ORDER HAPPENED. THANKFULLY, MY WIFE WAS ABLE TO GET THE VEHICLE TO COAST TO A STOP WITHOUT HITTING ANYONE OR ANYTHING. THIS PROBLEM IS VERY DANGEROUS. IT IS INTERMITTENT THUS MAKING IT HARD TO DIAGNOSE. *JB
| Occurrences: 2 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 01/27/2007 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 1/29/2007 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Details: THE BRAKES HAVE COMPLETELY STOPPED WORKING (EXCEPT FOR THE EMERGENCY BRAKE) 3 TIMES IN ONE MONTH, 4 TIMES IN TWO YEARS. *TR
| Occurrences: 4 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 08/26/2007 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 9/26/2007 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC:SWITCHES:BRAKE LIGHT
Details: SERVICE BRAKE SYS MESSAGE ON 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID ALONG WITH BRAKE WARNING LIGHT. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 03/15/2008 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 3/16/2008 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Details: HAVE HAD THE "SERVICE BRAKE SYSTEM" MESSAGE AND THE DASH "BRAKE" INDICATOR LIGHT GO ON RANDOMLY WITHOUT BRAKING FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS (BEGAN IN MAY 2008) IT HAS BEEN TO THE DEALER TWICE (IN JUNE 2008) AND IS NOW DOING IT AGAIN. THE DEALER REPLACED AN ELECTRICAL HARNESS THIS FIRST TIME AND CLEANED CONTACTS ACCORDING TO A FORD SERVICE ALERT THE SECOND. I ALSO HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM IN THE FALL OF 2007. THE "SERVICE BRAKE SYSTEM MESSAGE" APPEARED AND THE DASH "BRAKE" INDICATOR LIGHT CAME ON OVER A THREE WEEK PERIOD FOLLOWED BY THE 4X4 SYSTEM AND ABS SYSTEM MAKING NOISE, JERKING THE CAR SEVERAL TIMES AND THEN SHUTTING DOWN WHILE I WAS DRIVING (NOVEMBER 2007). THIS WAS FIXED BY THE DEALER BUT NOW THE CARS INDICATOR LIGHTS ARE TURNING ON AGAIN AND THE PROBLEM DOES NOT SEEM TO ABLE TO FIXED. I AM WORRIED THE BRAKE SYSTEM WILL FAIL AGAIN. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 07/18/2008 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 7/18/2008 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Details: BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE ON 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID: HIGHWAY DRIVING, NO BRAKING DURING FAILURE - ABS LIGHT COMES ON WITH "SERVICE BRAKE SYSTEM" MESSAGE ON CONSOLE. TOOK TO DEALER WHERE THEY "DIAGNOSED" MASTER CYLINDER FAILURE. REPLACED MASTER CYLINDER. 06 JULY 09 BRAKE SYSTEM FAILURE ON 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID: NORMAL CITY DRIVING UNDER 35MPH ABS LIGHT COMES ON WITH "SERVICE BRAKE SYSTEM" MESSAGE ON CONSOLE. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 06/26/2009 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 7/11/2009 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, ELECTRIC
Details: MY 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID HAVE 140,000 MILES ON IT FOR THE PAST 3 WEEKS THE ABS LIGHT AND THE RED TRIANGLE STOP THE CAR SAFELY COME ON WHEN I START THE CAT. I PULL OVER SHUT THE CAR OFF RESTART AND ALL IS WELL UNTIL THE NEXT TIME. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 01/25/2010 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 2/5/2010 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Details: FORD HYBRID ESCAPE BRAKE LIGHT KEEPS COMING ON. I HAVE TO TURN IT OFF AND THEN BACK ON TO GET THE LIGHT OUT. DEALER SAYS ITS A GROUND FAULT AND FORD HAS A NEW WIRING HARNESS, BUT I AM REQUIRED TO PAY FOR IT, ITS AN 05 WITH LESS THAN 8,000 MILES ON IT, YET I AM TO PAY AND FIX FORDS PROBLEM, AND WE ARE TALKING BRAKES HERE, THAT FORD KNOWS ABOUT AND HAS ALREADY IDENTIFIED AND HAS A FIX FOR. IT NEEDS A RECALL. THE ELECTRIC STEERING HAS ALREADY FAILED ONCE AND HAD TO HAVE A NEW COMPUTER FOR THIS. FORD IS HIDING PROBLEMS WITH THE CAR. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 02/01/2010 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 2/10/2010 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, HYDRAULIC
Details: WE HAVE EXPERIENCED AN UNUSUAL PROBLEM WITH THE BRAKING SYSTEM IN OUT 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID. THERE HAVE BEEN MAY EPISODES OF THE YELLOW ABS AND THE RED BRAKE WARNING LAMP LIGHTING UP AND THE ALARM SOUNDING OVER THE PAST YEAR. THIS WOULD HAPPEN FOR A COUPLE OF DAYS AND THEN AFTER SHUTTING-OFF THE VEHICLE AND RESTARTING, THE BRAKES RETURNED TO NORMAL OPERATION. WE SPOKE WITH THE SERVICE DEPARTMENT AT OUR DEALERSHIP ABOUT THIS AND BECAUSE THE WARNING LIGHT WASNT ON AT THE TIME, THEY SAID THERE WAS NOTHING THEY COULD DO TO DETECT THE PROBLEM. THE LAST TIME THIS HAPPENED THE BRAKES REVERTED TO FAIL SAFE MODE REQUIRING A "PEDAL TO THE FLOOR" EFFORT TO SLOW THE VEHICLE TO A SAFE STOP LUCKILY WHILE PULLING INTO OUR DRIVEWAY . AFTER THIS WE HAD THE CAR TOWED TO THE DEALER AND WERE TOLD WE NEEDED A NEW "HCU" UNIT AND MASTER CYLINDER WITH A TOTAL REPAIR COST OF $4K+. I DECIDED TO DO SOME RESEARCH AND DISCOVERED MANY CASES OF THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENING WITH THE SAME YEAR AND MODEL ESCAPE. WE ARE GOING TO WAIT A FEW DAYS TO THINK BEFORE MOVING FORWARD WITH THE REPAIR. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 02/24/2010 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 2/25/2010 | |
Component: SERVICE BRAKES, ELECTRIC
Details: 2005 FORD ESCAPE HYBRID CAR HAS 65,000 MILES ON IT WITH NO HISTORY OF BRAKE TROUBLE. COMING DOWNILL THE ABS/BRAKE LIGHTS CAME ON ALONG WITH AN ALARM AND IMMEDIATE LOSS OF THE BRAKES. HAD TO USE MECHANICAL EMERGENCY BRAKES TO STOP. CALLED DEALERSHIP NEXT MORNING TO TOW IT IN, THEN READ ON LINE TO TRY RESTARTING THE CAR THE NEXT DAY AND THE PROBLEM MIGHT BE GONE. CAR STARTED, NO BRAKE ISSUES APPARENT (NO LIGHTS, BRAKES FUNCTIONAL) SO DROVE IT TO DEALERSHIP FOR REVIEW/REPAIR. TOOK COPIES OF ONLINE RESEARCH SHOWING THIS IS AN ISSUE WITH THE CAR. DEALERSHIP CLAIMED IT WAS THE REAR AIR CONDITIONER (HOLE IN THE EVAPORATOR CORE) - THEY HAD REPAIRED THE AC 4 MONTHS PREVIOUSLY, WHICH ONLY LASTED FOR 6 WEEKS. PLANNED TO HAVE THEM REPAIR IT AT THE 65,000 MILE SERVICE ANYWAY. PAID $1033. DROVE CAR HOME THAT NIGHT AND THE ABS/BRAKE LIGHTS WENT ON, ALARM SOUNDED BUT THIS TIME NOT A TOTAL LOSS OF BRAKES. INSTEAD WHENEVER PRESSURE IS APPLIED TO THE BRAKE PEDAL, THERE IS A LOUD THUMPING NOISE FROM THE FRONT BRAKES AND SHUDDERING THROUGHOUT THE CAR. PLAN IS TO RETURN TO DEALERSHIP AFTER THE WEEKEND AND BRING LATEST RESEARCH SHOWING FAULTY HCU UNITS HAVE BEEN FOUND TO BE AN UNDERLYING CAUSE, WHICH FORD IS DENYING. *TR
| Occurrences: 1 | Injuries: 0 |
| Fail Date: 03/31/2010 | Deaths: 0 |
| Date added to datbase: 4/10/2010 | |
It would appear as though all of these cases are related to the problem as described in Ford's Technical Service Bulletin TSB 0585 (issued August 5, 2005), which states:
ABS AND BRAKE WARNING LAMP ON WITH DTC C1526 - DTC C1524 MAY ALSO BE PRESENT VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO 2/11/2005
ISSUE: Some 2005 Escape Hybrid vehicles built prior to 2/11/2005, may exhibit the yellow ABS and the red brake warning lamps illuminating after the engine is started, and an increase in brake pedal effort. Diagnostic trouble code (DTC) C1526 (Brake Pedal Travel Sensor) will be present in the ABS module, C1524 (Brake Pedal Travel Sensor Calibration Incomplete) may also be present.
ACTION: Install a revised master cylinder. Refer to Workshop Manual Section 206-06.
PART NUMBER PART NAME: 5M6Z-2140-B Master Cylinder
My experience, and that of others, has been that the resolution also includes the replacement of the defective HCU. At this point, the repair of the poorly designed brake system is the sole responsibility of the vehicle owner. I believe that the only way Ford will address this important safety matter is if the NHTSA will take notice. If you have had a problem with the regenerative braking system on your Ford Escape or Mecury Mariner Hybrid, please consider notifying the NHTSA. By contacting the NHTSA, you may help bring this important safety matter to the attention of other owners of these vehicles.
Hello, I was planning on buying an 05 FEH but now I am reconsidering especially after I found that this particular car was built prior to the 2/11/05. Is there a way to search to see if this problem affects certain VIN numbers? Thanks
ReplyDeleteI am not aware of a specific range of VIN numbers that have demonstrated this problem with the regenerative brakes. I would hope that is something that the NHTSA is investigating or that Ford would provide to the public.
ReplyDeleteHi, Just today my abs light came on and the car acted weirdly, kicking and almost stalling like it was a manuel car and i was on too high of a gear. I was driving slowly when it happened, pulling out of a parking lot. It happened 4 times on my 3 mile drive home, each time righting itself almost immediately. The car has 80,000 miles and is a 2005 hybrid escape. Oiy, i can't afford 7K! Does this sound like it is the same problem? I decided to research the problem before going to the mechanic and found your post. I'd appreciate your feedback. thanks, Lee
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Your symptoms do not sound like what I have experienced, but that does not mean this is not an issue with the ABS / HCU. Your mechanic should be able to read the trouble codes and give you some direction. Good luck!
ReplyDeleteKen,
ReplyDeleteMy 2005 FEH has exhibited this behavior 2x now. The first was over the Thanksgiving holiday. We were set to leave relatives house in NC to drive home to Washington DC. When I started the car, I heard a chime, wrench light came on and "servive brakes" as well as "service regen system" came on the message center. Complete loss of brakes. I took it to the Ford dealer in NC... drove 10 miles VERY slowly on emergency brakes only. Pedal went all the way to the floor for any type of braking action. Dealer recalibrated the electric brakes and they were fixed. Covered under the hybrid warranty(I only have 60k miles so cost me nothing. Out the door I went...no issues on the 400mi drive back and about 700mi total. Then Weds of this week....same issue...lights and no brakes at startup. Took it to dealer on Thursday and they called late Fri with a msg to call them back but it was late...I'll call them Mon w/TSB info.
In August 2009 while driving a 2008 company owned Ford Escape Hybrid, the warning chime sounded, "Service Brakes" flashed on the display, and I lost almost all of my braking power as I was coming up on a red light. Lucky there was no one in front of me because I was barely able to stop. Later, after the car was turned off, the brakes were magically restored. After doing a google search, I found that this is a common problem with the FEH. NTHSA will be notified. I hope they investigate and issue a recall.
ReplyDeleteMy thanks to everyone involved in sharing this info! Have there been any reports of this problem occurring on Escape Hybrids built AFTER 2/11/2005?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Based upon the comments left on this blog and the previous entry at http://blog.yagelski.com/2010/01/my-ford-escape-hybrid-brake-repair.html, and the complaints filed with the NHTSA (as published above), it would seem that this problem has occurred in Escape Hybrids built after 02/11/2005 as well.
ReplyDeleteAnyone have any idea if this happens to the 2011 models?
ReplyDeleteI experienced this issue the other night while driving on the expressway. The ABS warning light illuminated and the digital display indicated I should Service Break System & Service 4X4 System. I haven't experienced the problem again, but whenever I've had a issue with the vehicle, there are usually no warning signs and then it turns out to be something major. And each time, the car either stutters and feels like it might stall or just stops dead without any gradual slowing. It literally dies where it stands. I am almost reluctant not to take this to the dealership to check out, but when it goes to Ford they take no less than 3 days to remedy anything. Overall, hasn't been the greatest experience owning this car.
ReplyDeleteI started to have the problem described in this article about a year ago, just after the warranty had expired. It has gotten progressively worse over the last year. I did write to Ford directly (including directly to Ford's legal department) and was told that Ford would do nothing because I was out of warranty. Ford did tell me that I should get the brakes checked (no kidding!!!). I would hope that a class action attorney might be interested in pursuing an action against Ford. I cannot believe Ford would allow this serious (and potentially fatal) condition to continue to exist, but Ford clearly believes it will cost more to address the problem than merely pay for accidents that are certain to occur. This was my third Ford in a row. It will be my last.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nap6M5iZM-s&feature=player_embedded
ReplyDeleteI posted a similar brake system problem with my 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid on YouTube.
It's called: Look Ford, No Brakes!!!
We have a 2005 Ford Escape Hybrid and the ABS has gone out twice. The second time they replaced the HCU and had a design engineer from Detroit come to look at it. We were still under warranty so no charge. That was 3 mos ago. Today we rode up a steep mountain to Lake Tahoe and with no warning the "STOP SAFELY NOW" message came on and the car just died...on a curvy steep road with little shoulder! We got it towed down to Reno, and will find out tomorrow the cause. We tried starting it up 3 times and the car would restart but then as soon as we put the gas on, it stalled. We were able to get to the other side of the road where there was more of a shoulder, but had to stop both sides of traffic, and able to coast. Very scary. I don't feel safe in this car anymore and if we can, we will be trading it in this week and replacing it with a Toyota (which the tow truck guy says he never has to tow.)
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: Sounds like you may have a failed electric motor cooling pump. See my blog post here for more information... http://blog.yagelski.com/2011/02/ford-escape-hybrid-electric-motor.html
ReplyDeleteWouldn't it be nice if Ford owned-up to all of these dangerous brake failures?
Ok. Own a '06 Merc Mariner Hybrid with ~63K miles and no issues ever until yesterday. While driving about 65 mph on cruise control on a remote stretch of Utah highway, my ABS warning and brake warning lights both suddenly lit up, for no apparent reason. Brakes had worked normally at an intesection about 10-15 minutes earlier, so at 65mph I applied brake pedal lightly to see what the warning lights were referring to. The pedal went nearly to the floor before I could get any braking action, so I slowed the car using the emergency brake to pull over and look for any sort of mechanical cause. None found. Limped the car home using the emerg brake; now researching before going to the dealer, only to find this depressing thread. I don't have $7K to repair, so the car is now driveway junk, I guess, at just over 63K. Thanks Ford! Never again.
ReplyDeleteThis is going to get more interesting before it gets better. Our 2010 less than 17K miles Mariner Hybrid had this exact problem earlier this week. Very fortunately it happened on a very slow street and no one got hurt. The local Ford dealer, which I really like and has treated me very well over the years has said "We see you had a problem, but we can't reproduce it...."
ReplyDeleteSound familiar??
Will be taking printouts of this blog and comments into the service manager to see what they have to say.
This is the first time in my lifetime (and I'm an old guy...) that I have ever been afraid to drive a car because of brakes.
I have a 2005 FEH. My car battery died on Friday last (9/23) Jumped the car, and the ABS brakes took about 2 minutes to kick in. Same thing happened this morning, except it took 15 minutes for the brakes to work. Is this the same thing you were speaking of? My car has 107k miles. Is it worth fixing?
ReplyDeleteAnonymous: I have had the 12 volt battery in my FEH fail as well. However, I do not recall a jump start resulting in a problem with the brake system.
ReplyDeleteThe symptoms related to the failed master cylinder and hydraulic control unit are described in detail on this blog [http://blog.yagelski.com/2010/01/my-ford-escape-hybrid-brake-repair.html] and in the many visitor comments. It is not clear to me that you are experiencing the same issue.
Is the vehicle worth repairing? In my case, the FEH was in excellent condition except for the failed brake system. "Junking" the vehicle for salvage value was not an acceptable economic alternative for me and my family. If your FEH is having the same problem, you will need to decide whether or not $7,000+ in repairs is a good idea.
Thanks! Just brought it to the dealer. They said after a new battery, the braking system needs to be recalibrated and it should take care of the problem. It really is a little harrowing driving on the fail safe braking system. I wondered if it was the same as the situations discribed above, but with it only happening immediately after a dead battery I hoped it was not. It has never happened spontaneously.. I really do like this car and this is the first issue I have had with it. Fingers crossed! I have a 15 year old son and hope to pass this vehicle on to him.
ReplyDeleteI have had the exact same issue with my 2008 Ford Escape Hybrid. The first time I had the problem was 500 miles after I had my regular brake service. The error code was: Check Brake System, Regen Brakes disabled, ABS Light on. This code would come and go. I took it in to my dealer and they Replaced my Master Cylinder. The next week I still had the Check Brake System, Regen Brakes disabled, ABS Light error. Once again the error would come and go. It happened again recently but the code would not go away so I took it in again. This time the technician said I needed new brakes and that he has seen new brakes solve the problem before. So I had the brake pads and rotors replaced. On my way home with my new brakes the same Check Brake System, Regen Brakes disabled, ABS Light error appeared. Went back in and this time they said I needed a new hydraulic control unit. Now I'm out of warranty so they said the $3000+ bill is my responsibility. I haven't done it yet but I'm having a real hard time spending money on something that is defective by design and I believe the fault lies with Ford Motor Company so they should recall this potentially dangerous problem.
ReplyDeleteMy 2005 FEH has about 90,000 miles on it. Back in May-July, I started having braking issues. The pedal would tense up and it was hard to stop, but the car stopped. Then one day just a block from work, the brakes went out completely. Took it to the local dealership and they "reprogrammed" the brakes. Drove it to TN and back (from OH) without an issue until I was a mile from my house. Toward the end of July, the brakes went out again. Took it to the dealership by my house and they replaced the master brake cylinder to the tune of almost $1600. A week after that, I found out I was getting laid off. Well, this past Saturday, the brake light and "service brake system" appeared on the dash. Took it to the dealership for an oil change, tire rotation and it needed rear brakes. The technician performed a TSB procedure that may or may not work, but seeing as how I am unemployed I went for the cheaper route. Well, this morning the brake light came on again with the same message. Fantastic. I've already been told that it's going to cost about $4000 to replace the HCU. Of course I don't want to put it off since I got lucky the two times the brakes did go out completely and I wasn't on the highway. This is a safety issue and I think it's crap FORD won't cover it. My family have been loyal FORD customers for years. My grandfather worked for them for over 30 years. Because of this, I am done. I'd consider getting a new car, but I can't get a loan without a job, nor do I have money for a car payment. This one has been paid off for years. I'm livid over this. I will be filing complaints with everyone I can think of. Not that I think it will do any good, but it might make me feel better.
ReplyDeleteHi there,
ReplyDeleteThanks for all the great info. I wish I did not need it! ;)
I have a 2005 FEH with 187K miles. I had the front brakes replaced this June (rotors, etc.), drove from Maine to SC - everything great, up to 30mpg.
Yesterday (11/18/11) I was driving home and the car was lurching, acting strangely. I pulled over and the front right brake was really gushing smoke and hot as a pistol. My shop was near by so I let it cool and limped it over.
This morning he replaced the caliper and brake hose but said he could not bleed the brakes after trying for nearly 2 hours. He arranged for me to go to the Ford dealer so I did as I have been there before. So $239 for him.
From his shop to Ford dealer, almost no brakes, pushing down very hard, ABS light on and SERVICE BRAKE SYSTEM displayed, and brake light.
The Ford dealer had the car for a few hours and said they could not bleed the brakes either. Here is what the 'receipt' said:
"Tried to perform an ABS bleed with the IDS, can not perform. Codes in system C1323, travel sensor 1 fault. C1524, calibration incomplete, brake travel.C1525, initialization incomplete. These are hard faults. Ford has bulletin for code 1524 to replace master cylinder first before proceeding further. Customer declined repairs. Vehicle unsafe, should not be driven."
I limped it home on on just reserve brakes - pushing all the way to the floor, really hard!
I do not trust the Ford dealer, especially that one. After reading this blog I am also concerned that they will charge $1142 for the master cylinder (their estimate) then want another $4K for the HCU.
OK - How f&^%ed am I?
Seriously though is there any way an independent mechanic can have a look at this and really determine if I need a master cyl and the HCU? Any in New England?
Any help or advice would be appreciated. Is it worth taking to another Ford dealer? Is it time to trade it in for whatever I can get?
My shop guy did pay the $137 Ford charged to look at this so still just $239 into this. I paid $5500 for this car about a year ago, very clean, have driven 20K miles. I really love it besides this.
thanks,
Willie in Maine
Willie in Maine - The codes are the codes. Any other dealer or mechanic will tell you the same thing.
ReplyDeleteIt is my understanding that it does require special equipment to bleed the brakes, so even if you have a local mechanic replace the master cylinder, you will still need a visit to the Ford dealer to perform the bleed. That is the process I used, which did result in a lower cost. However, there is no way to know for certain if the HCU is bad as well until you clear-up the error codes caused by the bad master cylinder.
I faced a similar decision... sell it for whatever I could, or have the repairs done. I decided to bite the bullet and fix the brakes, as the vehicle only had minimal salvage value with the failed regenerative brakes. Since I could not afford a new vehicle, the repairs made sense for me.
Good luck with your situation.
Good news!
ReplyDeleteI took it to another dealer in Waterville, ME (Ray Haskell Ford) and they were able to fix it without the expensive parts. I did not tell them about the first dealer experience, only about the first shop that could not bleed the brakes.
The receipt says:
"40 ECC tested 3 codes bled brakes and reprogrammed ABS, did pinpoint test - road tested OK"
so $176 instead of potential $7K.
Lesson: if this happens to you don't accept that the master cylinder and HCU are bad. Get other opinions. Make them go back at it.
Also, if you really do need a master cylinder you can find a Motocraft one for $600 delivered on eBay, not the $1100 for the part only the dealer wanted.
Hopefully the fix will last me!
thanks,
Willie
Willie - Best of luck with the repair. However, it's been our experience that "reprogramming" the ABS does not resolve the problem for long. That is why there are Technical Service Bulletins from Ford addressing this issue. Please keep us posted on your vehicle's braking performance.
ReplyDeleteThanks Ken - I guess the thing I am wondering about this is: if you (a mechanic I mean) are holding a new master cylinder or HCU is there any way to tell there is anything wrong with it by looking/bench testing somehow? Other than the computer and the codes? If not that is kind of scary. Can you 'tell' the computer a part is new? These questions are kind of rhetorical, I guess I am pointing out the potential downside of over-computerized cars. Up to this point all I have owned is rear-wheel drive Volvos.
ReplyDeletethanks,
willie
Willie - Unfortunately, a failed master cylinder or HCU would not provide visible clues to the person viewing the outside of the component. It is a mechanical failure on the inside of the component... just the same as failed components on a rear wheel drive Volvo.
ReplyDeleteI would imagine that there are bench rigs that can test the master cylinder and HCU. However, such a device is likely uncommon and likely only to exist back in the Ford labs where they design the parts and the computer monitoring hardware and software.
Getting a new HCU and ECU a couple years back seems to have fixed the problem, but I'm very upset that Ford has not fixed this for everyone. This is a very dangerous problem. I have not looked at the NHTSA site for this problem for a few years since I reported my failure (2/13/2009). I now see at least 42 reported problems that are very similar for 2005 and 2006 Escape Hybrid and Escape HEV. I'm going to check the 2007 models as well.
ReplyDeleteHow can we get Ford to address this problem? I wouldn't be surprised if people have already been seriously injured or killed. Since there's no visible signs of the problem, I would expect that investigators chalked up some accidents to driver error that were actually caused by brake failure.
Kevin (01/13/2012) - I couldn't agree with you more. I continue to hear from Ford Escape Hybrid and Mariner Hybrid owners who are experiencing this same problem. Some of their brake failure experiences are harrowing. And all of them continue to get raked-over by the Ford Service Departments for thousands of dollars. Yet the NHTSA and Ford Motor Company remain silent. It's an amazing and very sad situation.
ReplyDeleteI am probably more surprised that there has not been a class action lawsuit proposed.
I have a 2008 Mercury Mariner Hybrid. Brakes failed in Nov for my wife and in Dec for me. I have taken all the ground points from the Neg of battery to where they connect to the body and cleaned them. One is below the battery, one is on the passenger side of engine, on the wheel well and one you need to remove the driver side front tire to redo. I think it is an electrical problem. I have not had a failure since. 2-15-12
ReplyDeleteI would like to add to the previous entry, that 2 weeks prior to the initial brake failure my wife noticed the power went out on the entertainment console (radio clock etc). When both brake failures occurred, turning the ignition off and on and recalibrating the brakes fixed the problem. As a retired electronic engineer with over 40 yrs in process control my feeling is it is an electrical problem. April 11,2012 and no further problems.
DeleteAnonymous (02/15/2012) - I hope that you are correct. However, I can attest that the problem that I experienced was VERY intermittent. Sometimes it would happen three days in a row, and then not again for three months. I could not "make" the problem occur. It finally reached a point to where I felt that the vehicle was unsafe to drive and I pursued the repair, even three Ford Dealer Service Managers told me I was nuts.
ReplyDeleteI have a quick question... when this brake failure happened... did brake fluid pour out, or did it just come up with the service brake system?
ReplyDeleteCause this happened to me yesterday, and I now have brake fluid coming out from somewhere. I'm going to Ford tomorrow... I'm hoping my issue is just a leaky line or something, and not this catastrophic failure. Thanks.
Anonymous (12/26/2012) - I am not aware of the subject Master Cylinder / HCU failure resulting in leaked brake fluid.
ReplyDeleteSorry for your misfortune, and I hope that the repair is economical.
Hi I own a 2006 Ford Escape Hybrid and exspierianced a simular problem.I did not loose brakes but the abs light came on the dash and I felt a definate jerk and vibration and a warning to service the abs and the 4x4. It has happend only in the last week seems as after the car sits over night or a longer time. I was going to take it to a Ford dealer but after reading about the cost I would not be able to afford it. I will check to see if they have a recall for it. If not I am going to see if a class suit is feasible.
Deletejust a side note, I have seen many wire harness's damaged due to battery acid.people put aftermarket oversized batteries that touch the wire harness in the left front and when they start to leak acid eats the wiring and also corrodes the grounds that anonomys feb. 15th. wrote about!
ReplyDeleteWas looking into buying an used '05 Ford Escape but have reconsidered and will not! Ford's apparent lack of concern is appalling!
ReplyDeleteHI Ken,
ReplyDeleteI may be really late to this party, and sorry to possibly be bringing up old problems you would rather not think about again, but my 2006 FEH with 137K miles just started with the ABS and Brake lights issue. My experience is a little different then most, I've never lost braking ability, they still work fine, although they now serge a bit as if I have a warped rotor. I have lost the regenerative breaking and dropped about 3 miles/gallon in overall MPG. The computer codes at the dealers must have pointed to the HCU as the service writer took me all the way into the showroom and over in a corner away from everyone else to tell me that it was the HCU and it wasn't worth fixing it..... He also told me it was safe to drive and only the ABS would be affected????? Hope that's right!!!!! First, in your opinion, is it possible for a simpler set of problems to generate the same codes, like a stuck parking brake cable, or bad sensors. Obviously I am hoping to figure out another cause and get it fixed for less then $5K. Do you still have your hybrid and did the replaced HCU work for you? Hopefully you will still have a few words of wisdom for anyone only now facing this problem.
Bill W.
Sorry, but there are no other ways to generate the problem codes... it's the HCU.
DeleteI still own the FEH and have vowed to keep it until it dies in order to get my money back out of the repair cost. I now have 160,000 miles, and no more braking problems associated with the HCU.
The problem that you have is that the vehicle is now essentially worthless. Like being totaled in a wreck, but without the insurance benefit. It's very expensive to repair, but it's worthless without the repair (i.e. you can't sell it in the present condition).
It's a tough call. Sell the vehicle for salvage value, or break open the piggy bank. Good luck.